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So FairPhone are launching the 5th version of their phone and right there on the page (which I won’t link to):

“All of your favorite Google Apps will be right there with you.”

Nothing like a good bit of fair trade, environmentally-friendly surveillance capitalism, eh?

(I spoke with them when they were just starting out. They fully know and understand what #Google’s business model is. They fully understand what #SurveillanceCapitalism is. This is not an oversight; it’s strategy.)

#FairPhone

in reply to Aral Balkan

Éibhear 🔭
 — (Dublin, probably.)
Of course, what's *never* stated is that inclusion of Google's apps is non-optional for the user. Once Google allows for its apps to be included in the build, it comes with the stipulation that the user may not remove them.
in reply to Jeffrey P Burdick

Hello! Murena Fairphone 5 with the deGoogled /e/OS @e_mydata is already available for this model at murena.com/shop/
This entry was edited (1 year ago)
in reply to Aral Balkan

I've just started moving Google Analytics to Umami hosted on our own server, 25 % done in one day

github.com/GSCloud/umami

how to deploy your own Umami in 30 secs. (not counting TLS proxy)

in reply to Aral Balkan

And please do not enter my mentions with “but you can install a different operating system on it.”

Statistically speaking, no one does that.

No one buys a car and changes the engine except for car geeks.

(Not to mention the legitimacy an organisation with the stated goals of Waag/FairPhone gives to surveillance capitalism by endorsing Google… I mean, that’s something special that money can’t buy.)

This entry was edited (1 year ago)
in reply to Aral Balkan

As a FP user, I feel like I'm also to blame for keeping the Google apps on there. I could install other stuff, but won't because it's too big of a hassle.
As for why they don't do it themselves, I guess it's because replacing Google's polished (but privacy-invading) apps is hard. How much business would they lose if they shipped an OS with UX that's 50% worse?
in reply to Mikael Gramont

@mikamtb It shouldn’t be about the business. They’re not Samsung.

(And it’s not your fault. You’re lucky you have the technical knowhow to do that if you wanted to and even you don’t have the time to do so without devoting your self to it to keep the custom OS secure and updated and, and, and…) :)

in reply to Aral Balkan

@mikamtb Even if you do have the know-how, it's easy to brick a phone when you try to install another OS on it. Happened to e when we tried to install LineageOS on an ASUS phone. We ended up having to install the recovery program into the boot partition, because the manufacturer had blocked the recovery partition.

This means that for every update, you have to flash the boot partition with the recovery program. This is not usable.

Normal people will not touch this with a barge pole.

in reply to Aral Balkan

You can buy the FP4 with a different operating system: murena.com/shop/smartphones/br… I know that Fairphone cooperates with /e/, while other manufacturers make it hard to build alternative ROMs on purpose. But I agree with you, they should sell it with /e/ themselves.

Aral Balkan reshared this.

in reply to Aral Balkan

The landscape is grim and thats a real shame.

I searched around and the best I could do is still use Google but use grapheneOS, which has a bunch of refreshing places where they actively design stuff to limit Google. It sucks that as you say its not accessible to pretty much everyone. Doing any meaningful degoogling is an unbelievably time and labor intensive process (that has taken me a year and counting of concerted shifting). Idk what it takes to run a cell manufacturing company but goddamn it if it takes allegiance to Google, I thought they were gonna be the Good Ones.

We have to make these systems for each other, no way we can just individually work our way out of surveillance capitalism.

in reply to Aral Balkan

I'm coming in with "you can install a different OS on it, but..."

I am one of those people technical enough to do it, and I have an old Fairphone lying around to test it on. I'm still psyching myself up to try testing LegacyOS on it.

Why do I have that FP lying around? I sent it in for warranty repair, and included a note that the problem can take up to 24 hours to show itself.
It was sent back the same day they received it, with "started it up and it works fine."
So I bought another Cat phone, and the FP has sat on a shelf ever since.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Fairphone 5 is available from Murena with e/OS pre-installed since day one. There's no need to install it yourself when you can just buy the phone with it.
in reply to Aral Balkan

@Aral Balkan

Statistically speaking, no one does that.


But that's also because statistically speaking, everybody wants their Google apps. Those who don't, are a lot more likely to install their own OS.

Don't forget that their primary mission is to clean up supply chains. And if they keep their phone only for a tiny niche, they would be choosing to have little to no impact. They want to show that a responsible phone can be a good and popular phone.

in reply to Aral Balkan

If you're not a geek, you won't survive on Android with no Google apps.

They make an effort to provide more environmentally friendly products, but ultimately there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

in reply to Aral Balkan

aside from that, the thing is too damned big. “Designed for You” unless you’re assigned female at birth or
have small hands for other reasons
or can only use one hand or
have reduced mobility in your hands.
in reply to Aral Balkan

same with removing a phone jack: support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us…

"In the current user feedback surveys we see more people being critical about the current Fairphone dimensions than about the fact that they have to use an adapter for using devices with headphone jack."

But no numbers given :/

in reply to Aral Balkan

the shit part is that if they don't do it, lots of people won't buy their product.

In my country (idk how it is elsewhere), banking or government apps literally will not work unless you have them installed through the app store (which ok you can spoof if you know what you're doing but same argument as changing OS applies) and/or unless you have Google Play Services. It's a huge issue for google-free custom OS users.

in reply to Fruity Mercury :catjam:

@EchteNachtraaf They have a social mission. They’ve got Waag. They’ve got the guy who made his millions with his ISP who funds them. They could fight it. Invest in the software side of things. Sacrifice short-term sales to at least start paving a way forward that doesn’t involve Google.

(But when I spoke to their aforementioned money guy back in the day he just didn’t care about the free/open source side of it. He was obsessed with it being a commerical success. So here we are.)

in reply to Aral Balkan

didn't they have a de googlified phone? The one I had seen advertised in US by Murena had that as an option.
in reply to Aral Balkan

I'm not sure what's outrageous about a company that makes #android phones making android phones? #fairphone has chosen a very specific battle to fight in this industry, and this is a battle they will lose if they're fighting on other fronts. They have a history of supporting other builds on their phones, and, as others here have mentioned, @murena sells fairphones without #google.
in reply to Jeffrey P Burdick

@burdickjp @murena There's a great saying that covers this situation: "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
in reply to Patrizia

@patrizia @burdickjp @murena There’s also another saying: If FairPhone is an ethical company and they have no problem encouraging people to use Google, then Google must be an ethical company too (otherwise FairPhone would be unethical in suggesting the use of an unethical company).

I do agree that it doesn’t roll off the tongue as easily, though.

in reply to Aral Balkan

@patrizia @murena
#fairphone has a very, very specific battle in this war. They are demonstrating that ethically sourced and manufactured consumer electronics hardware is viable. The magnitude of this effort cannot be understated.
The ugly thing about battles is that you sometimes find yourself allied with parties you'd otherwise rather not associate with. If we want ethical software for their ethical hardware, that is a battle we can fight, and celebrate meeting them in victory.
in reply to Aral Balkan

that's a shame, I'm thinking about buying one when my current phone breaks down some day. I really like their easy repair model and long support. tbh I already have google spyware on my current phone so there would be not much of a difference.
Realistically speaking there is basically no alternative, you either use google spyware or apple spyware, and that's sad.
in reply to Mateusz Olech

@astromateusz See framapiaf.org/@jeanjean/110978…

(Apparently /e/os has dealt with the security concerns regarding how they installed apps, so I’m more inclined to recommend it now.)

in reply to Aral Balkan

I suppose the OS and apps is not their hill. They are trying to tackle the manufacture and obsolescence part of it. It might be that right now they can make more of a difference by shipping the google OS. They are out to prove that you can build a user serviceable, fairly manufactured phone at scale. This gives people like the EU more strength to argue against the big two on hardware. There are other people trying to make a difference with the OS.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Murena are selling a degoogled fairphone 5 that ships at the end of September, so I would imagine they were working with Fairphone to get it ready in time:

murena.com/shop/smartphones/br…

#FairPhone
#FairPhone5
#Murena

Unknown parent

in reply to Jean

@jeanjean @SigmaOne @murena I had my reservations about their App Store but it looks like they’ve made improvements (see nervuri.net/e/app-lounge) so, yeah, that’s a good alternative to have.

And there’s no reason (beyond wanting more sales) that FairPhone cannot do that themselves instead of continuing to legitimise Google and surveillance capitalism. But I guess it’s better to have your cake and eat it too.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Sorry Aral, .... But the general public expects an Android phone to act like an "Android phone".

There is a version with e/os being sold somewhere else. Because Fairphone did work with e/os for the fp4 at some point iirc. So there are options.

But the average consumer just wants regular Android

They have an official partnership with eos:
fairphone.com/en/2020/04/30/ke…

#Google #SurveillanceCapitalism #FairPhone

in reply to Aral Balkan

Maybe they would struggle to have any market impact sustainability and (resource) ethics-wise if nobody bought their phones because they can't run the play store.

They're trying to end labour exploitation specifically aren't they - make the production of mobile hardware more ethical. A case of different priorities. But it's a fair criticism.

@jeanjean @SigmaOne @murena

in reply to Aral Balkan

Maybe they would struggle to have any market impact sustainability and (resource) ethics-wise if nobody bought their phones because they can't run the play store.

They're trying to end labour exploitation specifically aren't they - make the production of mobile hardware more ethical. A case of different priorities. But it's a fair criticism.

@jeanjean @SigmaOne @murena

in reply to Aral Balkan

I'd like to present an alternative for you. Consider the device you are currently using. It is likely manufactured with unethical labor practices and materials which fund conflict. If this does not stop you from using it, then you have fallen in the fight #fairphone is fighting. Ironically, one of the best devices to buy for running ethical software on a phone, is the #googlepixel. #lineageos discusses why, and we've discussed some of why other hardware fails where the pixel doesn't.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Fair point, but if you don't think they are evil or stupid, then this is part of their theory of change i.e. gain market share. I understand it like this:

People who use Google can use a Fairphone, people who like Free Software and Responsible Online Services can also use a Fairphone.

But who do you have to market to, because they don't already know you and your product? Exactly.

in reply to Aral Balkan

My opionion, violation of the "don't mention custom roms" policy

Hm, i think your "no custom roms" is a bit oversimplified.
For example they partner with /e/ / murena so you can buy degoogled Fairphones if you want to.

Shop link for degoogled FP5:
murena.com/shop/smartphones/br…

Yet i agree they could push that more and make it more visible

in reply to Aral Balkan

This sucks... was writing them up as a solid case for better capitalism. Looks like not, now.
in reply to Aral Balkan

I used the first FairPhone. A strange device, but I really liked it - and I liked that it required an active effort to install the Google integration. I ended up doing that at the time because the software available from other sources was limited. But given the things available in F-droid these days, I don't think I would now.
in reply to Aral Balkan

yeah it is a strategy, because without Google Apps you can't sell a phone to a broader mass of people...
in reply to Aral Balkan

@jeanjean @SigmaOne @murena

I have been using /e/os now for almost a year as my daily driver (on a Oneplus 7 Pro) and it is a really solid solution for me. As long as Chromecasting and AndroidAuto is not important to you (and it shouldn't, given the #surveillance, please do consider it as well. I am always shocked about the amount of Google (spyware) presence when I revert to a 'normal' Android phone.

#Fairphone5 with /e/os is definitely on my shortlist when my current phone dies.

in reply to tsuica

@tsuica Is it really, though? If you like, I can take one of my semi-functional PinePhones that’s gathering dust in my drawer to take it. (Or would you rather I took it from my desktop Fedora Silverblue daily driver?)
in reply to Aral Balkan

I was making a point of how surveillance is not a Google-specific thing. It's a mega-corpo thing, Apple included.

Regarding the "Google apps", FairPhone gives you the option to use these apps if you have (or want) to. It comes with Android stock, yeah, but you can also use a non-Google, non-tracking OS with it, which is more than I can say about iPhones. They're doing a hell of a lot more than Apple is regarding e-waste, repairability and sustainability.

So yeah, it's pretty damn funny.

in reply to tsuica

@tsuica Oh, I thought it was only Google. Thanks, I’m so new at this stuff, it’s always nice to have some random ‘dude being a guy’ to explain things to me.

I’ll see you later, giggles.

in reply to Aral Balkan

idk about the #fairphone 5 or 4 but previous fairphones have relatively easy to load with #lineage or #efoundation OS
With or without #MicroG

I resent the #google much of what google do and their collection of data on people who have never meaningfully consented but #fairphone are way better than average

in reply to Aral Balkan

👋 @agnes007 je suis désolé, je n'ai pas réussi à retrouver (l'extrait de) la conférence où tu expliques que FairPhone ne peut pas vendre de FairPhone avec des Android dérivés (type /e/) à cause du contrat qui lie FP avec Google car pour être revendeur officiel d'appareils Android, il faut respecter un certain nombre de critères (support matériel, suivi des failles de sécu, autres...) ce qui vous empêche de vendre avec une ROM alternative. Une piste ?

Merci d'avance et bravo pour le FP5 👍 👏

in reply to Aral Balkan

what are they supposed to do? "Hey, buy our phone and lose access to all the apps you use!" isn't a great sales pitch.
I'm sure many on Mastodon will say shit like "Bro just unbuntu the distro to sideload the Unix you idiot" or whatever the fuck, but y'all are the minority. Most people just want a phone that works with minimal hassle, not to get an associate degree in computer science just to be able to play Candy Crush.
in reply to Beeks

@Beeks Yes, indeed, there is nothing that cannot be done that is different to what is already being done. Gotcha!

Also, see: mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978028…

in reply to Aral Balkan

so you prefer they simply not make a phone? Or that they take an absurd amount of VC money to try and enter an owned market?
I understand and agree Google sucks, but so does child labor. They can't do magic, they've got to get customers first and the market (including myself) is ignorant and lazy. We either like Coke or Pepsi. We aren't switching to RC Cola.
in reply to Beeks

@Beeks I’d hate to burst your bubble but…

mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978891…

(I actually only just found out myself.)

in reply to Aral Balkan

they already sell a niche product, and providing software without Google Play Store would sadly make it even more niche and less accessible for regular customers.
luckily, you don't have to install a custom ROM on your own, you can buy the same phone from Murena, which runs a degoogled ROM: murena.com/shop/smartphones/br…
in reply to noodlejetski :verified_gay:

@noodlejetski But why would I? FairPhone is an ethical company and if they think Google is at least as ethical as they are and include their apps, why would I want a phone without them?

mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978864…

in reply to Aral Balkan

I don't know why you personally would, because I'm not you. me, I've accepted that their focus is on ethics around sustainability and repairability, supported them financially because they appear to be the least worst option in that regard, and installed the software from organizations whose focus IS on user privacy (first /e/, then Calyx).
in reply to Aral Balkan

@Aral Balkan I thought you wanted a version without Google's apps?! Now it turns out you do have that option, pre-installed so you don't have to do it yourself, and that's still not good enough?

I don't understand you. Are you just here to bitch about people having the audacity to try to make phones environmentally less damaging?

in reply to Aral Balkan

@Aral Balkan I read it again, and I still don't understand you. Why buy a version without Google's apps? Because some people don't want their phone to be loaded with Google's apps and tied to Google's systems. That's why.

You get to choose.

Unknown parent

Aral Balkan

@mateitudor So I guess they’ll implement the move away from Google after they’ve scaled and exited. Because apparently they recently took venture capital.

mastodon.ar.al/@aral/110978891…

in reply to Aral Balkan

I might be wrong on this but isn't there like a clause within being allowed to develop an Android phone by Google that a company has to include the proprietary Google apps? As far as I can tell that makes making it not possible for a company to sell a degoogled Android smartphone even if they wanted to. Not saying fairphone wants to since let's be honest, many customers would complain about the apps requiring Google services not working.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Isn't it ironic that a phone designed to fight obsolescence is already in its fifth version in 10 years ?
in reply to ECHAEA

@ECHAEA Tech keeps advancing, and lagging behind isn't going to help them. The more important issue is: are all of the older phones still supported? I think the FP1 and 2 were still a bit experimental and not fully supported anymore, but I thought the later models are.
Unknown parent

Martijn Vos

Exactly. They're not Samsung. They can't afford to put a lot of effort into creating a custom OS, and they do need the experience to be just as good as any other Android variety. If their OS sucks, less people will buy a Fairphone, which means more people will buy a more polluting phone. That's their primary concern.

I believe they did have the option for a deGooglified OS in the past, but my guess is that it wasn't popular enough to justify continuing it.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Hu. They used to sell directly an ungoogled version of their phone, you could chose your operating system. It seems this option is gone.
in reply to Aral Balkan

This is where competition authorities should do something weird like "enforce a fair market" or "stepup to power-abusing #BigTech companies".
There are two clauses in the contracts manufacturers have to sign that are highly problematic:

1) if you put any Google service on a phone, you MUST deliver the complete bundle of bloatware, including Search, YouTube, Gmail, PlayStore etc, even if all you want is push notifications
2) if you want to sell some device with Google services, you MUST install them on all devices you sell.

Now #FairPhone could of course NOT accept the contract and only sell devices with fair software, but probably no one would buy one then, statistically speaking.

And yes, this power abusing stranglehold of #Google on the device manufacturers is still no excuse for the lame pro-surveillance marketing shit they spout.
#surveillance #SurveillanCapitalism #FuckOffGoogle #FairSoftware

As The World Turns reshared this.

in reply to Aral Balkan

As much as I agree that it shouldn't be like this, and despise Google (I use a degoogled ROM), I think it's a good thing people know Fairphone supports it. The Fairphone stands as the best argument that you can have quality phones that are repairable, while not having to become a FOSS purist or similar (even though that would be pretty cool).

Should it be in the marketing? Maybe not. But i think it's good that they support it - at least for the situation we are in right now.

in reply to Aral Balkan

this reminds me of that sticker saying "designed for Microsoft Windows". I'm really thankful for that sticker, as it tells me what NOT to buy…

Back to the FP5: At F-Droid, that would be called an "anti-feature" (at best; we all know it's rather something proprietary which would not enter the catalog).

in reply to Aral Balkan

@murena offers fairphones with alternative operating systems, and you can even lease them from @commownde
in reply to Kooperative Commown

@commownde Why would anyone need to install an alternative OS? Are you saying there’s something wrong with Google Android and with Google’s apps?

Because FairPhone is an ethical company and if there were any ethical issues with Google or its apps (e.g., if they spied on you or if they were surveillance capitalists, for example) FairPhone would never include them on their ethical phones and promote their use.

@mycelium @murena @commownfr

in reply to Aral Balkan

@Aral Balkan I'm concerned that your sarcasm in this remark may not be obvious to everyone (although it's clear to me). :-)
in reply to Florida Ted

@florida_ted And that’s exactly the problem. It doesn’t matter whether I’m being sarcastic or not (I am, of course), it matters that Google is being legitimised.

@commownfr @murena @mycelium @commownde

in reply to Aral Balkan

Yes, and I'm sick of that too. Virtually all of my family and friends use google products "because it's just easier." Fighting this way of thinking is a losing battle. :-(